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Utility for Table SchemasAnyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for
developing table schemas. A utility to develop table schemas?
If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a variety of needs, this might be useful: http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be designed by a utility. -- Show quoteAllen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia. Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org. "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message news:4ju2h.1629$l25.515@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... > Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for > developing table schemas. I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a graphical
interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that such a utility exists. Show quote "Allen Browne" <AllenBrowne@SeeSig.Invalid> wrote in message news:O49hbGu$GHA.4328@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >A utility to develop table schemas? > > If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a variety > of needs, this might be useful: > http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm > > In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom > database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke > Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be designed > by a utility. > > -- > Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia. > Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html > Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org. > > "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message > news:4ju2h.1629$l25.515@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... >> Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for >> developing table schemas. > > Neil wrote:
> I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a graphical Might be, but I find small yellow stickies (post it notes) work great > interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing work for me. > I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up relationships, and > print the schemas, without creating the tables, and then create the tables > once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that such a utility exists. when conceptualizing a design. It's certainly possible I'm in the dark ages, though. -- Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/ ^o< /#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake /^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me I believe Microsoft's Visio might do what you want.
Show quote "Tim Marshall" <TIMMY!@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> wrote in message news:eimp8a$tjr$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca... > Neil wrote: >> I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a >> graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing >> work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up >> relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and >> then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that >> such a utility exists. > > Might be, but I find small yellow stickies (post it notes) work great when > conceptualizing a design. It's certainly possible I'm in the dark ages, > though. > -- > Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/ > ^o< > /#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake > /^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me > Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing
this -- doesn't have to be fancy. You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just go straight to table design? Show quote "David F Cox" <nospam@please.com> wrote in message news:%23mP1AHZAHHA.4496@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >I believe Microsoft's Visio might do what you want. > > "Tim Marshall" <TIMMY!@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> wrote in message > news:eimp8a$tjr$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca... >> Neil wrote: >>> I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a >>> graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the >>> designing work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, >>> set up relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the >>> tables, and then create the tables once I'm done with all the design >>> work. Seems that such a utility exists. >> >> Might be, but I find small yellow stickies (post it notes) work great >> when conceptualizing a design. It's certainly possible I'm in the dark >> ages, though. >> -- >> Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/ >> ^o< >> /#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake >> /^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me >> > > In article <xUO3h.3032$l25.2949
@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>, nospam@nospam.net says... > Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing I was also expecting to see lots of replies.> this -- doesn't have to be fancy. > > You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use > this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most > people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just > go straight to table design? > This is the only thing I have encountered that is free. (Assuming it can still be downloaded.) http://www.fabforce.net/dbdesigner4/ it is really for use with Mysql. I have also seen this recommended, but the cheapest version is $229. http://www.datanamic.com/ There are many others and most are expensive. Thanks for that!
Show quote "Michael Gramelspacher" <grame***@psci.net> wrote in message news:MPG.1fb9a3bb8159bbbf9896a9@msnews.microsoft.com... > In article <xUO3h.3032$l25.2949 > @newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>, nospam@nospam.net says... >> Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing >> this -- doesn't have to be fancy. >> >> You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I >> use >> this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most >> people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or >> just >> go straight to table design? >> > I was also expecting to see lots of replies. > This is the only thing I have encountered that is free. > (Assuming it can still be downloaded.) > http://www.fabforce.net/dbdesigner4/ > it is really for use with Mysql. > > I have also seen this recommended, but the cheapest version is > $229. http://www.datanamic.com/ > > There are many others and most are expensive. > Here's what we do:
At first: on a whiteboard or using pencil & paper, we sketch out the high level tables using circles (tables) and lines (relationships). We indicate the one and many side of each relationship. We may note a few critical fields under each table, or some sample data in quotes. When we feel that the initial table level of design will work, we enter it directly into Access or SQL Server, and use the relationships window (in Access) or a Diagram (in SQL Server) to lay it all out graphically. We don't use a third party tool, but Visio can do it (as another poster suggested). Another (more expensive) tool is ERWin. On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:43:41 GMT, "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote: Armen Stein>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing >this -- doesn't have to be fancy. > >You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use >this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most >people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or just >go straight to table design? > Microsoft Access MVP www.JStreetTech.com What actually I use is a large sheet of paper and a very soft pencil 4B - 6B
and a good eraser. Usually the diagram never gets finished. When I have sorted out the difficult bits I am off into the table design window. I am not advocating that anybody follow my example. Show quote "Armen Stein" <ArmenSt***@R3m00v3Th1s.gmail.com> wrote in message news:u3qvk2tsk3bjp36qvehtajheimc4ek2ph0@4ax.com... > > Here's what we do: > > At first: on a whiteboard or using pencil & paper, we sketch out the > high level tables using circles (tables) and lines (relationships). We > indicate the one and many side of each relationship. We may note a > few critical fields under each table, or some sample data in quotes. > > When we feel that the initial table level of design will work, we > enter it directly into Access or SQL Server, and use the relationships > window (in Access) or a Diagram (in SQL Server) to lay it all out > graphically. > > We don't use a third party tool, but Visio can do it (as another > poster suggested). Another (more expensive) tool is ERWin. > > On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:43:41 GMT, "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote: > >>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing >>this -- doesn't have to be fancy. >> >>You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use >>this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most >>people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or >>just >>go straight to table design? >> > > Armen Stein > Microsoft Access MVP > www.JStreetTech.com > > Thanks for the feedback. I can see the usefulness of that approach. I just
have an aversion to sketching things out manually, and prefer to do everything on the PC. In the past, I've always just gone in and created tables in Access, using it as a design tool of sorts. But this project I'm starting is somewhat complex, and I wanted to lay it out first before going to table design. Show quote "Armen Stein" <ArmenSt***@R3m00v3Th1s.gmail.com> wrote in message news:u3qvk2tsk3bjp36qvehtajheimc4ek2ph0@4ax.com... > > Here's what we do: > > At first: on a whiteboard or using pencil & paper, we sketch out the > high level tables using circles (tables) and lines (relationships). We > indicate the one and many side of each relationship. We may note a > few critical fields under each table, or some sample data in quotes. > > When we feel that the initial table level of design will work, we > enter it directly into Access or SQL Server, and use the relationships > window (in Access) or a Diagram (in SQL Server) to lay it all out > graphically. > > We don't use a third party tool, but Visio can do it (as another > poster suggested). Another (more expensive) tool is ERWin. > > On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:43:41 GMT, "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote: > >>Could be; but I was hoping for some free or inexpensive tool for doing >>this -- doesn't have to be fancy. >> >>You know, it's interesting: I was expecting lots of replies saying, "I use >>this," or "I use that." But that hasn't been the case. So what do most >>people do, just design with pencil and paper or just Word or Excel? Or >>just >>go straight to table design? >> > > Armen Stein > Microsoft Access MVP > www.JStreetTech.com > Here's a nice list of such tools:
http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm Can't vouch for any of the free ones, but can recommend Erwin, Visio and Enterprise Architect, all of which I've used. Cheers, Paul Ibison SQL Server MVP, www.replicationanswers.com . Thanks!
Show quote "Paul Ibison" <Paul.Ibi***@Pygmalion.Com> wrote in message news:eVDuYEmAHHA.1012@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Here's a nice list of such tools: > http://www.databaseanswers.com/modelling_tools.htm > Can't vouch for any of the free ones, but can recommend Erwin, Visio and > Enterprise Architect, all of which I've used. > Cheers, > Paul Ibison SQL Server MVP, www.replicationanswers.com . > With me, if it's not on my PC, it gets lost. The only way I find mail is by
knowing which part of the floor it was left on.... My computer files, on the other hand, are very organized. :-) Show quote "Tim Marshall" <TIMMY!@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> wrote in message news:eimp8a$tjr$1@coranto.ucs.mun.ca... > Neil wrote: >> I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a >> graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing >> work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up >> relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and >> then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that >> such a utility exists. > > Might be, but I find small yellow stickies (post it notes) work great when > conceptualizing a design. It's certainly possible I'm in the dark ages, > though. > -- > Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/ > ^o< > /#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake > /^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me Neil wrote:
> With me, if it's not on my PC, it gets lost. The only way I find mail is by 8) Re the stickies, the good thing about this stage of development > knowing which part of the floor it was left on.... My computer files, on the > other hand, are very organized. :-) means I take a day (or three) to clear the myriads of paper, empty pop bottles, sandwich crusts to clear off my desk and organize myself. 8) -- Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/ ^o< /#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake /^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me Well, there is that! :-)
I've recently come up with a method for house/office cleaning. It's called the "One Bag At A Time" method. What you do is you take a large plastic garbage bag, walk around, and fill it up with trash, unneeded mail, other miscellaneous unneeded things, and you keep going until the bag is full. Then you take the bag out and stop. Then another time, you do another bag. And you keep doing this until things are clean. This way, it's not too much at once. And once you have the bag in your hand, you're motivated to find stuff to put in it! :-) N Show quote "Tim Marshall" <TIMMY!@PurplePandaChasers.Moertherium> wrote in message news:eirekr$96d$2@coranto.ucs.mun.ca... > Neil wrote: >> With me, if it's not on my PC, it gets lost. The only way I find mail is >> by knowing which part of the floor it was left on.... My computer files, >> on the other hand, are very organized. :-) > > 8) Re the stickies, the good thing about this stage of development means > I take a day (or three) to clear the myriads of paper, empty pop bottles, > sandwich crusts to clear off my desk and organize myself. 8) > > > -- > Tim http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/ > ^o< > /#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake > /^^ "Whatcha doin?" - Ditto "TIM-MAY!!" - Me You can do this in Excel.
Show quote "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message news:MBz3h.3493$ig4.705@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... >I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a >graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing >work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up >relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and then >create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that such a >utility exists. > > > "Allen Browne" <AllenBrowne@SeeSig.Invalid> wrote in message > news:O49hbGu$GHA.4328@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>A utility to develop table schemas? >> >> If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a variety >> of needs, this might be useful: >> http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm >> >> In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom >> database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke >> Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be designed >> by a utility. >> >> -- >> Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia. >> Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html >> Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org. >> >> "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message >> news:4ju2h.1629$l25.515@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>> Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for >>> developing table schemas. >> >> > > Yes, I can list tables and fields in Excel; but I'd like to visually
display table relationships and joins. Surely there must be a tool out there that does this. Show quote "Karl" <some***@sbcglobal.biz> wrote in message news:nMJ3h.6245$B31.5258@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... > You can do this in Excel. > > "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message > news:MBz3h.3493$ig4.705@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a >>graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing >>work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up >>relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and >>then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that >>such a utility exists. >> >> >> "Allen Browne" <AllenBrowne@SeeSig.Invalid> wrote in message >> news:O49hbGu$GHA.4328@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>A utility to develop table schemas? >>> >>> If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a variety >>> of needs, this might be useful: >>> http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm >>> >>> In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom >>> database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke >>> Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be >>> designed by a utility. >>> >>> -- >>> Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia. >>> Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html >>> Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org. >>> >>> "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message >>> news:4ju2h.1629$l25.515@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... >>>> Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for >>>> developing table schemas. >>> >>> >> >> > > Actually, you can use the graphic tools in Excel to draw boxes and lines to
create a simple ER diagrams. In my classes, I give the students a PowerPoint template that has all the objects created that they can just copy and paste into a new PowerPoint document to draw their ER diagrams. It actually works pretty well. You can find it here: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/TutorialsDesign.html Show quote "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message news:CQO3h.3028$l25.1361@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... > Yes, I can list tables and fields in Excel; but I'd like to visually > display table relationships and joins. Surely there must be a tool out there > that does this. > > "Karl" <some***@sbcglobal.biz> wrote in message > news:nMJ3h.6245$B31.5258@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... > > You can do this in Excel. > > > > "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message > > news:MBz3h.3493$ig4.705@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... > >>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a > >>graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the designing > >>work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up > >>relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and > >>then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems that > >>such a utility exists. > >> > >> > >> "Allen Browne" <AllenBrowne@SeeSig.Invalid> wrote in message > >> news:O49hbGu$GHA.4328@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > >>>A utility to develop table schemas? > >>> > >>> If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a variety > >>> of needs, this might be useful: > >>> http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm > >>> > >>> In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom > >>> database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke > >>> Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be > >>> designed by a utility. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia. > >>> Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html > >>> Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org. > >>> > >>> "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message > >>> news:4ju2h.1629$l25.515@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... > >>>> Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for > >>>> developing table schemas. > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > Thanks.
Show quote "Roger Carlson" <NO-Roger.J.Carlson-SPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message news:OGXusBpAHHA.3368@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Actually, you can use the graphic tools in Excel to draw boxes and lines > to > create a simple ER diagrams. > > In my classes, I give the students a PowerPoint template that has all the > objects created that they can just copy and paste into a new PowerPoint > document to draw their ER diagrams. It actually works pretty well. You can > find it here: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/TutorialsDesign.html > > -- > --Roger Carlson > MS Access MVP > www.rogersaccesslibrary.com > > "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message > news:CQO3h.3028$l25.1361@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... >> Yes, I can list tables and fields in Excel; but I'd like to visually >> display table relationships and joins. Surely there must be a tool out > there >> that does this. >> >> "Karl" <some***@sbcglobal.biz> wrote in message >> news:nMJ3h.6245$B31.5258@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net... >> > You can do this in Excel. >> > >> > "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message >> > news:MBz3h.3493$ig4.705@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... >> >>I meant just a tool for playing with table designs and providing a >> >>graphical interface/printing utility, not one that would do the > designing >> >>work for me. I want to be able to design the tables manually, set up >> >>relationships, and print the schemas, without creating the tables, and >> >>then create the tables once I'm done with all the design work. Seems > that >> >>such a utility exists. >> >> >> >> >> >> "Allen Browne" <AllenBrowne@SeeSig.Invalid> wrote in message >> >> news:O49hbGu$GHA.4328@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> >>>A utility to develop table schemas? >> >>> >> >>> If ou are looking for suggestions on how to design schemas for a > variety >> >>> of needs, this might be useful: >> >>> http://www.databaseanswers.com/data_models/index.htm >> >>> >> >>> In general, though, you only go go the trouble of creating a custom >> >>> database if there is no off-the-shelf solution. Therefore the bespoke >> >>> Access databases you create all have unique needs, and cannot be >> >>> designed by a utility. >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Allen Browne - Microsoft MVP. Perth, Western Australia. >> >>> Tips for Access users - http://allenbrowne.com/tips.html >> >>> Reply to group, rather than allenbrowne at mvps dot org. >> >>> >> >>> "Neil" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message >> >>> news:4ju2h.1629$l25.515@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net... >> >>>> Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility > for >> >>>> developing table schemas. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > what do you want to do.. print schemas?
export schemas to word? I would reccomend keeping an eye on www.gliffy.com it is a free online visio-killer Neil wrote: Show quote > Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for > developing table schemas. When I have seen questions concerning complex logic on newsgroups I have
wished for a sketchpad where I could draw a flowchart. Other times I have longed to be able to share a relationship diagram. This looks like a possible answer. I would like to hear more expert views on this. <susie***@hotmail.com> wrote in message Show quote news:1162516728.249225.47180@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > what do you want to do.. print schemas? > export schemas to word? > > I would reccomend keeping an eye on www.gliffy.com it is a free online > visio-killer > > > Neil wrote: >> Anyone have a recommendation for a good inexpensive or free utility for >> developing table schemas. > >  |
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