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Learning & Frustration.developer and have a situation of information overload here. Microsoft is pushing out stuff so fast these days that's its IMPOSSIBLE to keep up with even 1/2 of the technology. I get really frustrated and start reading a bunch of stuff and find out that I only know a little bit of each technology and I'm not really that proficient at any of them. Let me start out with a little bit about me. I do have a college background in Computer Science. I graduated about 7 years ago. I went to work for a relatively small government organization (but they have huge programs). The buisness rules are quite complex. At first I mostly used VB6,SQL Server 7, & Crystal Reports. Right now we are trying to upgrade our existing system to ..Net & just upgraded our DB server to Sql Server 2005. It's a huge understaking because of the size of some of our applications. I get some exposure to .Net, especially as more and more code gets upgrade (interop sucks). I have a through understanding of OO concepts even when using vb6 for many years. My training in School was mostly C/C++/Java on a solaris enviroment. I know inheritance, operator overloading, polymorphism, interfaces, abstract classes, ect..... There are so many new cool technologies in .Net that I find myself just trying to learn them all but as you all are aware of it's a huge undertaking. I listen to .Net Rocks & Hanselman minutes a lot. Like for example most recently I got interested in asp.net so I started reading asp.net unleashed (very good book by the way). Then I was like well I really need to know this SQL Server 2005 stuff. So I started on reading on stuff on sql server like CLR Integration, Reporting Services, Integration Services, ect. Then I thought that the WCF stuff in .Net Framework is really cool. I think one of my personal interest is in WSE Security. So I started reading a little bit about that too. Then I got interested in some of the Software Engineering concepts like TTD/Extreme programming using NUnit, Mock Objects. Then there is LINQ/ORCAS which seems really cool and will be very important once it comes out. I even got frustrated when I was in asp.net. Because in reading through the booking im thinking of what I need to do to produce an attractive site and while reading his book he is going over CSS (which I know is VERY Important), JavaScript (which I really don't know), and Graphics (if you don't want your site to look like a teenagers site). On top of this there are so many bad books out there. I am not a beginning programmer and I don't want some book to go over basic concepts that I could easily learn from either MSDN or google. I want more advanced concepts. I am sitting her tonight and thinking maybe I ought to just go back to the basics. Go learn the internals of the CLR. Say read one of Jeffrey Richter's books. Heck I don't know. Do you guys know what I mean about information overload now. How in the world do you guys manage this. Any help would be appreciated. thanks, Brent On Fri, 04 May 2007 18:15:03 -0700, Brent <bren***@removeme.hotmail.com>
wrote: Show quote > [...] There are so many new cool technologies in .Net that I find myself Seems to me, you've got two basic options: rid yourself of all outside > just trying to learn them all but as you all are aware of it's a huge > undertaking. I listen to .Net Rocks & Hanselman minutes a lot. Like for > example most recently I got interested in asp.net so I started reading > asp.net unleashed (very good book by the way). Then I was like well I > really need to know this SQL Server 2005 stuff. So I started on reading > on stuff on sql server like CLR Integration, Reporting Services, > Integration Services, ect. Then I thought that the WCF stuff in .Net > Framework is really cool. I think one of my personal interest is in WSE > Security. So I started reading a little bit about that too. Then I got > interested in some of the Software Engineering concepts like TTD/Extreme > programming using NUnit, Mock Objects. Then there is LINQ/ORCAS which > seems really cool and will be very important once it comes out. [...] > > Do you guys know what I mean about information overload now. How in the > world do you guys manage this. Any help would be appreciated. distractions, including inter-personal relationships, and just spend all of your time reading and trying new technologies; or, learn to focus a little better on what's really important. All those technologies you mentioned (and others you didn't), sure they might be interesting but do you really need them all? No, not even close. Don't waste too much time learning in-depth about technologies you're never going to use. There's lots about .NET I don't know. Granted, some of that is that I'm relatively new to it. But I could write .NET code for a decade and there would still be lots about .NET I don't know. What's important is that I learn the parts that I *do* use as well as I can. I've got too many things to do that have nothing to do with programming to waste a lot of time trying to be an expert in everything. You probably do too. So stop trying. :) Pete Thanks for the reply Peter. That is whats hard deciding what is the most
important things to learn. You might say well learn whats important where you work. The problem is I have seen so much stuff happen where I where any of this stuff could be important. Recently we were trying to tighten up security which got me to thinking of WCF and WSE-Security specifications. I have found out I absolutetly HATE code coverage type of testing..which got me thinking NUnit (if your nunit test are good it could totally eliminate code coverage). We do a little asp.net programming too. Maybe the best strategy is to really understand the CLR and what is available and go from there. There are so many things in the CLR that I just know the concepts and I really don't use that much. For example.......Generics. I understand the concept just don't use it that much. WHat do you think? thanks, Brent Show quote "Peter Duniho" <NpOeStPe***@nnowslpianmk.com> wrote in message news:op.trt08uws8jd0ej@petes-computer.local... > On Fri, 04 May 2007 18:15:03 -0700, Brent <bren***@removeme.hotmail.com> > wrote: > >> [...] There are so many new cool technologies in .Net that I find myself >> just trying to learn them all but as you all are aware of it's a huge >> undertaking. I listen to .Net Rocks & Hanselman minutes a lot. Like for >> example most recently I got interested in asp.net so I started reading >> asp.net unleashed (very good book by the way). Then I was like well I >> really need to know this SQL Server 2005 stuff. So I started on reading >> on stuff on sql server like CLR Integration, Reporting Services, >> Integration Services, ect. Then I thought that the WCF stuff in .Net >> Framework is really cool. I think one of my personal interest is in WSE >> Security. So I started reading a little bit about that too. Then I got >> interested in some of the Software Engineering concepts like TTD/Extreme >> programming using NUnit, Mock Objects. Then there is LINQ/ORCAS which >> seems really cool and will be very important once it comes out. [...] >> >> Do you guys know what I mean about information overload now. How in the >> world do you guys manage this. Any help would be appreciated. > > Seems to me, you've got two basic options: rid yourself of all outside > distractions, including inter-personal relationships, and just spend all > of your time reading and trying new technologies; or, learn to focus a > little better on what's really important. > > All those technologies you mentioned (and others you didn't), sure they > might be interesting but do you really need them all? No, not even > close. Don't waste too much time learning in-depth about technologies > you're never going to use. > > There's lots about .NET I don't know. Granted, some of that is that I'm > relatively new to it. But I could write .NET code for a decade and there > would still be lots about .NET I don't know. What's important is that I > learn the parts that I *do* use as well as I can. I've got too many > things to do that have nothing to do with programming to waste a lot of > time trying to be an expert in everything. You probably do too. So stop > trying. :) > > Pete On Fri, 04 May 2007 20:25:12 -0700, Brent <bren***@removeme.hotmail.com>
wrote: > [...] For example.......Generics. I understand the concept just don't Well, on the topic of Generics in particular, I think they're the greatest > use it that much. WHat do you think? thing since sliced bread. :) I always avoided C++ templates, because I didn't like the code bloat they caused. But Generics have the benefits of templates without the drawbacks. I love using them. On the other things more generally...it's good to be aware of the technologies that are available. But if you get to the point where you think one might be useful in your particular application, then that's the time to drill in. You still need to keep focused though. Don't try, for example, to include WCF in your code the same week you're trying to figure out NUnit. Break your tasks up and stick to one thing at a time. Try to learn enough about the technology at hand so that you have a general feel for it, but don't waste time trying to be an expert before you use it. Once you get the lay of the land, so to speak, dive in and start applying it. Learn as you go, and try to make sure that what you're learning applies to what you're doing. As far as "what's important" goes, IMHO what's important is what will actually help you get what you want done sooner, or better. Preferably both. For example, if you've already got a robust, secure communications layer built, don't waste time converting to WCF (ignoring for the moment that few people really code up as robust and secure a communications layer as they think they have :) ). If you learn about a new technology but you don't see some immediate application in your own work, don't worry about it too much. What "could be important" is not nearly as useful a thing to think about as what *is* important. All of the above is my own personal philosophy. I suppose opinions may vary. But I've found that techologies come and go, and there's a huge range of things that could occupy my attention if I let it. There are lots of technologies that I've never had personal need to use, and I'm glad I didn't waste time learning them. I guess some people aren't comfortable unless they feel that they know everything, but I just don't think that's a practical goal. I'd much rather be making forward progress on whatever projects I have going, than spend a lot of time on learninging in an abstract environment. To do that, I find that I need to spend the bulk of my learning time on things that I have an immediate application for. Pete I think all of technology falls into Moore's Law in a way:
http://www.intel.com/technology/mooreslaw/index.htm It is tough to keep up with everything. Fortunately, there are also more examples, books, and other supporting materials these days to help. There are also forums like these where we can ask even the stupidest of questions and still be respected :o) I try not to keep it all in my head (like that would be possible anyway) and just learn what I need when I need it. It's also a good idea to keep up with "the possibilities" so when you need something you'll know where to look or who to ask even if you don't know all the syntax. Tom Show quote "Brent" <bren***@removeme.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:210D7A6D-34DC-4823-826F-735E0D8E0CC3@microsoft.com... > Ok I'm sure there are a lot of people in my position. I am a professional > developer and have a situation of information overload here. Microsoft is > pushing out stuff so fast these days that's its IMPOSSIBLE to keep up with > even 1/2 of the technology. I get really frustrated and start reading a > bunch of stuff and find out that I only know a little bit of each > technology and I'm not really that proficient at any of them. > > Let me start out with a little bit about me. I do have a college > background in Computer Science. I graduated about 7 years ago. I went to > work for a relatively small government organization (but they have huge > programs). The buisness rules are quite complex. At first I mostly used > VB6,SQL Server 7, & Crystal Reports. Right now we are trying to upgrade > our existing system to .Net & just upgraded our DB server to Sql Server > 2005. It's a huge understaking because of the size of some of our > applications. I get some exposure to .Net, especially as more and more > code gets upgrade (interop sucks). > > I have a through understanding of OO concepts even when using vb6 for many > years. My training in School was mostly C/C++/Java on a solaris > enviroment. I know inheritance, operator overloading, polymorphism, > interfaces, abstract classes, ect..... There are so many new cool > technologies in .Net that I find myself just trying to learn them all but > as you all are aware of it's a huge undertaking. I listen to .Net Rocks & > Hanselman minutes a lot. Like for example most recently I got interested > in asp.net so I started reading asp.net unleashed (very good book by the > way). Then I was like well I really need to know this SQL Server 2005 > stuff. So I started on reading on stuff on sql server like CLR > Integration, Reporting Services, Integration Services, ect. Then I thought > that the WCF stuff in .Net Framework is really cool. I think one of my > personal interest is in WSE Security. So I started reading a little bit > about that too. Then I got interested in some of the Software Engineering > concepts like TTD/Extreme programming using NUnit, Mock Objects. Then > there is LINQ/ORCAS which seems really cool and will be very important > once it comes out. > > I even got frustrated when I was in asp.net. Because in reading through > the booking im thinking of what I need to do to produce an attractive site > and while reading his book he is going over CSS (which I know is VERY > Important), JavaScript (which I really don't know), and Graphics (if you > don't want your site to look like a teenagers site). > > On top of this there are so many bad books out there. I am not a beginning > programmer and I don't want some book to go over basic concepts that I > could easily learn from either MSDN or google. I want more advanced > concepts. > > I am sitting her tonight and thinking maybe I ought to just go back to the > basics. Go learn the internals of the CLR. Say read one of Jeffrey > Richter's books. Heck I don't know. > > Do you guys know what I mean about information overload now. How in the > world do you guys manage this. Any help would be appreciated. > > thanks, > Brent
Show quote
"Tom Serface" <tom.nospam@camaswood.com> wrote in message I can't agree more here.news:001BA52F-F25D-4BE9-AC07-AACE2C8B1189@microsoft.com... >I think all of technology falls into Moore's Law in a way: > > http://www.intel.com/technology/mooreslaw/index.htm > > It is tough to keep up with everything. Fortunately, there are also more > examples, books, and other supporting materials these days to help. There > are also forums like these where we can ask even the stupidest of > questions and still be respected :o) > > I try not to keep it all in my head (like that would be possible anyway) > and just learn what I need when I need it. It's also a good idea to keep > up with "the possibilities" so when you need something you'll know where > to look or who to ask even if you don't know all the syntax. > > Tom > I personally treat intelligence in two ways. 1) Those that can pull knowledge out of their head and use it when needed within a moments notice. 2) Those that know what they know and know what they don't and can out their fingers on the information they don't know quickly. Both of these people are intelligent to me. Because of the depth and breadth of today's programming space you cannot be a know-it-all on the entire thing but there are several things you should know right off the bat and then the others it is good to know of them, know what they can do, and know what they cannot do. When it comes time to implement them then you can take the time to look up HOW. I'll chime in here to say that depending on the field, you'll need to know
enough to hold an intelligent discussion. If you need more than that, it's time for a good book. I don't write production code anymore these days so I'm beginning to forget the details and specifics. It's ok, right now my responsibilities call for broad knowledge and I am overwhelmed with the pace from Redmond. But I do what I can and then some. The rest of my time, I try not to worry about work. -- Show quoteRegards, Alvin Bruney ------------------------------------------------------ Shameless author plug Excel Services for .NET is coming... OWC Black book on Amazon and www.lulu.com/owc Professional VSTO 2005 - Wrox/Wiley "Ray Cassick" <rcass***@enterprocity.com> wrote in message news:udAIew1jHHA.3264@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > > "Tom Serface" <tom.nospam@camaswood.com> wrote in message > news:001BA52F-F25D-4BE9-AC07-AACE2C8B1189@microsoft.com... >>I think all of technology falls into Moore's Law in a way: >> >> http://www.intel.com/technology/mooreslaw/index.htm >> >> It is tough to keep up with everything. Fortunately, there are also more >> examples, books, and other supporting materials these days to help. >> There are also forums like these where we can ask even the stupidest of >> questions and still be respected :o) >> >> I try not to keep it all in my head (like that would be possible anyway) >> and just learn what I need when I need it. It's also a good idea to keep >> up with "the possibilities" so when you need something you'll know where >> to look or who to ask even if you don't know all the syntax. >> >> Tom >> > > I can't agree more here. > > > > I personally treat intelligence in two ways. > > > > 1) Those that can pull knowledge out of their head and use it when > needed within a moments notice. > > 2) Those that know what they know and know what they don't and can > out their fingers on the information they don't know quickly. > > > > Both of these people are intelligent to me. > > > > Because of the depth and breadth of today's programming space you cannot > be a know-it-all on the entire thing but there are several things you > should know right off the bat and then the others it is good to know of > them, know what they can do, and know what they cannot do. When it comes > time to implement them then you can take the time to look up HOW. > > I agree with all of you!
In any case it's fun but frustrating! I am designing my development in a way that everyone knows a bit so that everyone supports each other. Thanks also to the local .NET group (www.MaltaDev.NET) we are creating a community to build more knowledge faster where everyone teaches each other! I'd guess it would be good to look around your area's .NET group and if it does not exist then create one. Finally it is an issue: you prefer that things stay such so that 1 person can know all .... or it's better to have many technologies and you specialize on one??? evan All are valid points. As somebody said "Change is the only constant" & we
need to expect changes in technology. No one can be an expert in everything. Instead focus on a few you like. Unfortunately, plenty of books are written with useless information just to fill in the pages. Try to find a good consise book that you can easily follow. Thanks for asking. HTH Just remember the age old saying...
"Jack of all trades, master of none." It is always good to have options and new things to learn. Show quote "Evan Camilleri" <e***@holisticrd.com.nospam> wrote in message news:e1XExgMkHHA.3656@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >I agree with all of you! > > In any case it's fun but frustrating! > > I am designing my development in a way that everyone knows a bit so that > everyone supports each other. > > Thanks also to the local .NET group (www.MaltaDev.NET) we are creating a > community to build more knowledge faster where everyone teaches each > other! > > I'd guess it would be good to look around your area's .NET group and if it > does not exist then create one. > > Finally it is an issue: you prefer that things stay such so that 1 person > can know all .... or it's better to have many technologies and you > specialize on one??? > > > evan On Mon, 07 May 2007 11:53:39 -0700, Ray Cassick
<rcass***@enterprocity.com> wrote: > Just remember the age old saying... lol...> > "Jack of all trades, master of none." > > It is always good to have options and new things to learn. I agree with the latter, but the former is not generally used in a complimentary way. :)
Show quote
"Peter Duniho" <NpOeStPe***@nnowslpianmk.com> wrote in message Not really trying to be complimentary, just trying to make a point. You can news:op.try0ewe78jd0ej@petes-computer.local... > On Mon, 07 May 2007 11:53:39 -0700, Ray Cassick > <rcass***@enterprocity.com> wrote: > >> Just remember the age old saying... >> >> "Jack of all trades, master of none." >> >> It is always good to have options and new things to learn. > > lol... > > I agree with the latter, but the former is not generally used in a > complimentary way. :) spend a lot of time trying to be a master of everything and end up really being GOOD at nothing. I think it is better to be really good at some things and then be adaptable enough to learn what is needed when you come to those odd corner cases.  |
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