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Unit Test Framework for .NET 2.0?I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild community group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think it is applicable to this group as well... If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual Studio 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by the Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software Testers)? If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be downloaded and used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation? I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team Suite into my Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would be to use NUnit. TIA Brian,
I've been using TestDriven.Net for the past week, it comes with code-coverage and costs only $95 Try it at http://www.testdriven.net/default.aspx, you can download the 'personal edition' for free. Works great, Jurjen. Show quote "Brian McCullough" <nospammingme@test.com> wrote in message news:%23ELweY1VHHA.1000@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Hello, > > I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild community group, so > I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think it is applicable to > this group as well... > > > If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual Studio 2005, > can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by the Team Suite? > For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework available (and > legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team Edition for Software > Developers or Team Edition for Software Testers)? > > If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be downloaded and used > with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation? > > I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team Suite into my > Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit test > classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to continue to > use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would be to use NUnit. > > TIA > > Hello Brian,
VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition. USe NUnit for this --- WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo BM> Hello, BM> BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild community BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think it BM> is applicable to this group as well... BM> BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual Studio BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by the BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software BM> Testers)? BM> BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be downloaded and BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation? BM> BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team Suite into BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would be BM> to use NUnit. BM> BM> TIA BM> Does anyone know if Microsoft is planning to offer this unit testing
framework as a separate SDK at any point??? Show quote "Michael Nemtsev" <nemt***@msn.com> wrote in message news:a279a63a3e198f8c92591ef5d6a28@msnews.microsoft.com... > Hello Brian, > > VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition. > USe NUnit for this > > > --- > WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour > Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ > > "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we > miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo > > BM> Hello, > BM> BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild community > BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think it > BM> is applicable to this group as well... > BM> BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual > Studio > BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by the > BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework > BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team > BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software > BM> Testers)? > BM> BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be downloaded > and > BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation? > BM> BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team Suite > into > BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit > BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to > BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would be > BM> to use NUnit. > BM> BM> TIA > BM> > Hello Brian,
Probably not. Why?! There should be the sound reason for this. --- WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo BM> Does anyone know if Microsoft is planning to offer this unit testing BM> framework as a separate SDK at any point??? BM> Show quote BM> "Michael Nemtsev" <nemt***@msn.com> wrote in message BM> news:a279a63a3e198f8c92591ef5d6a28@msnews.microsoft.com... BM> >> Hello Brian, >> >> VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition. USe >> NUnit for this >> >> --- >> WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: >> http://spaces.live.com/laflour >> Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ >> "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high >> and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) >> Michelangelo >> >> BM> Hello, >> BM> BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild >> community >> BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think >> it >> BM> is applicable to this group as well... >> BM> BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual >> Studio >> BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by >> the >> BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework >> BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team >> BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software >> BM> Testers)? >> BM> BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be >> downloaded >> and >> BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation? >> BM> BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team >> Suite >> into >> BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit >> BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to >> BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would >> be >> BM> to use NUnit. >> BM> BM> TIA >> BM> Well, I like to use the Microsoft tools, rather than download and use some
other tools. If they allowed Professional and Standard users to write unit tests against their framwework, we wouldnt have to use stuff like NUnit. I am not suggesting they include the tools in the Visual Studio IDE , but at least provide the assemblies, so that we had the opportunity to reference them and write our own unit tests using their framework. I also think it would be a better path to follow for when people using Standard/Professional then migrate to the Team edition. -Brian Show quote "Michael Nemtsev" <nemt***@msn.com> wrote in message news:a279a63a3e1a898c925b0a1175935@msnews.microsoft.com... > Hello Brian, > > Probably not. Why?! > There should be the sound reason for this. > --- > WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour > Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ > > "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we > miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo > > BM> Does anyone know if Microsoft is planning to offer this unit testing > BM> framework as a separate SDK at any point??? > BM> BM> "Michael Nemtsev" <nemt***@msn.com> wrote in message > BM> news:a279a63a3e198f8c92591ef5d6a28@msnews.microsoft.com... > BM> >>> Hello Brian, >>> >>> VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition. USe >>> NUnit for this >>> >>> --- >>> WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: >>> http://spaces.live.com/laflour >>> Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ >>> "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high >>> and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) >>> Michelangelo >>> >>> BM> Hello, >>> BM> BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild >>> community >>> BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think >>> it >>> BM> is applicable to this group as well... >>> BM> BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual >>> Studio >>> BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by >>> the >>> BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework >>> BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team >>> BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software >>> BM> Testers)? >>> BM> BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be >>> downloaded >>> and >>> BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation? >>> BM> BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team >>> Suite >>> into >>> BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit >>> BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to >>> BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would >>> be >>> BM> to use NUnit. >>> BM> BM> TIA >>> BM> > > Hello Brian,
I understand u and your point. But each thing, which is shipped is aimed to the specific area/users to win their loyality and attract new customers. From one side we have the number of users on all possible version of development tools using NUnit. From the other side we have the VS TeamSuite which cost a lot of money and which has a Test support. Well, if MS decided to suggest VS test framework for other editions rather then TeamSuite - they won nothing. There is nothing to win at all. So, what the reason for this?! I'd say even more, not all users who choose VS TeamSuite use VS test :) NUnit is well known for ages, the number of continuous integration system is built on the top of NUnit an there is no reasons to use VS test. The one exeption is the TeamFoundation, where VS test is integrated very well --- WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo BM> Well, I like to use the Microsoft tools, rather than download and BM> use some other tools. BM> BM> If they allowed Professional and Standard users to write unit tests BM> against their framwework, we wouldnt have to use stuff like NUnit. BM> I am not suggesting they include the tools in the Visual Studio IDE BM> , but at least provide the assemblies, so that we had the BM> opportunity to reference them and write our own unit tests using BM> their framework. I also think it would be a better path to follow BM> for when people using Standard/Professional then migrate to the Team BM> edition. BM> BM> -Brian BM> Show quote BM> "Michael Nemtsev" <nemt***@msn.com> wrote in message BM> news:a279a63a3e1a898c925b0a1175935@msnews.microsoft.com... BM> >> Hello Brian, >> >> Probably not. Why?! >> There should be the sound reason for this. >> --- >> WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: >> http://spaces.live.com/laflour >> Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ >> "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high >> and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) >> Michelangelo >> >> BM> Does anyone know if Microsoft is planning to offer this unit >> testing >> BM> framework as a separate SDK at any point??? >> BM> BM> "Michael Nemtsev" <nemt***@msn.com> wrote in message >> BM> news:a279a63a3e198f8c92591ef5d6a28@msnews.microsoft.com... >> BM> >>>> Hello Brian, >>>> >>>> VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition. USe >>>> NUnit for this >>>> >>>> --- >>>> WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: >>>> http://spaces.live.com/laflour >>>> Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ >>>> "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high >>>> and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) >>>> Michelangelo >>>> BM> Hello, >>>> BM> BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild >>>> community >>>> BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I >>>> think >>>> it >>>> BM> is applicable to this group as well... >>>> BM> BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of >>>> Visual >>>> Studio >>>> BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by >>>> the >>>> BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing >>>> framework >>>> BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. >>>> Team >>>> BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software >>>> BM> Testers)? >>>> BM> BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be >>>> downloaded >>>> and >>>> BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation? >>>> BM> BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team >>>> Suite >>>> into >>>> BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some >>>> unit >>>> BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like >>>> to >>>> BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative >>>> would >>>> be >>>> BM> to use NUnit. >>>> BM> BM> TIA >>>> BM> Michael Nemtsev <nemt***@msn.com> wrote:
> I understand u and your point. No, they'd have won mindshare, and made a good impression.> But each thing, which is shipped is aimed to the specific area/users to win > their loyality and attract new customers. > From one side we have the number of users on all possible version of development > tools using NUnit. > From the other side we have the VS TeamSuite which cost a lot of money and > which has a Test support. > > Well, if MS decided to suggest VS test framework for other editions rather > then TeamSuite - they won nothing. > There is nothing to win at all. So, what the reason for this?! The above. As it is, what have they gained? Do you think they've made a single TeamSuite sale which they wouldn't have made if the VS Test side had been included in other editions? > I'd say even more, not all users who choose VS TeamSuite use VS test :) NUnit There *would* have been one reason to use VS Test: being built-in, you > is well known for ages, the number of continuous integration system is built > on the top of NUnit an there is no reasons to use VS test. would be able to guarantee that every new hire, or every new team member on your open source project, etc, would already have it, without having to get it from somewhere else and download it. IMO it would have made a massive impact for this reason, in the same way that IE made such a huge impact - if you've already *got* a unit test framework available and integrated, wouldn't that become your default choice? > The one exeption is the TeamFoundation, where VS test is integrated At which point, having large numbers of VS Test users would help sales > very well of Team Foundation... -- Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet If replying to the group, please do not mail me too Hello Jon Skeet [C# MVP],
>> From the other side we have the VS TeamSuite which cost a lot of J> No, they'd have won mindshare, and made a good impression.>> money and >> which has a Test support. >> Well, if MS decided to suggest VS test framework for other editions >> rather then TeamSuite - they won nothing. probably yes >> There is nothing to win at all. So, what the reason for this?! J> The above. As it is, what have they gained? Do you think they've madeJ> a single TeamSuite sale which they wouldn't have made if the VS Test J> side had been included in other editions? I'd make it more clear - having the VS test only in TeamSuite make it more neat and more preferable for the customers. TeamSuite is aimed to the serious development, where we set the high bar in what do we do. All previous version is more "student", to try all "jam" of VS 2005 but a little bit shortcuted. I see only the marketing here. IMO. J> There *would* have been one reason to use VS Test: being built-in, J> you would be able to guarantee that every new hire, or every new team J> member on your open source project, etc, would already have it, J> without having to get it from somewhere else and download it. I cannot but agree, if only it was being built-in, but it isn't. This is possible for those projects which are started only recently and probably in new company, which has no previous projects and has nothing from the continious integration system, otherwise they already had smth build on the top of Nunit. J> would have made a massive impact for this reason, in the same way J> that IE made such a huge impact - if you've already *got* a unit test J> framework available and integrated, wouldn't that become your default J> choice? It would, but situation a little bit different, we are all using nunit, and VS test were introduced recently >> The one exeption is the TeamFoundation, where VS test is integrated J> At which point, having large numbers of VS Test users would help>> very well J> sales of Team Foundation... IMO it is so. --- WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: http://spaces.live.com/laflour Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo Michael Nemtsev <nemt***@msn.com> wrote:
<snip> > >> There is nothing to win at all. So, what the reason for this?! But not enough to make the difference between a sale of TS and a sale > J> The above. As it is, what have they gained? Do you think they've made > J> a single TeamSuite sale which they wouldn't have made if the VS Test > J> side had been included in other editions? > > I'd make it more clear - having the VS test only in TeamSuite make it more > neat and more preferable for the customers. of Pro, I suspect. > TeamSuite is aimed to the serious development, where we set the high bar Not at all. For many ISVs, there's not enough in TS to make it worth > in what do we do. > All previous version is more "student", to try all "jam" of VS 2005 but a > little bit shortcuted. the steep cost over Pro. There's a reason Professional is called Professional rather than Student... If you're a Microsoft-only shop which is easily able to buy into everything TS/TFS gives you, that's fine - but for other shops which already have a cross-platform source control system, a bug tracking system, etc, it's too high a price to pay. None of that says that unit testing isn't important to those shops - now why does MS want to encourage us to use NUnit rather than VS Test? > I see only the marketing here. IMO. But it's marketing based on false assumptions, IMO.> J> There *would* have been one reason to use VS Test: being built-in, Exactly - *because* they didn't build it into VS Standard, it's not the > J> you would be able to guarantee that every new hire, or every new team > J> member on your open source project, etc, would already have it, > J> without having to get it from somewhere else and download it. > > I cannot but agree, if only it was being built-in, but it isn't. de facto standard test tool, and so they've given NUnit another couple of years of "free ride" effectively. > This is possible for those projects which are started only recently I reckon if they'd bundled it into Standard, it would quite possibly be > and probably in new company, which has no previous projects and has > nothing from the continious integration system, otherwise they > already had smth build on the top of Nunit. the de facto standard test tool by the end of 2007. Nothing happens overnight, but you've got to start somewhere. They made a serious mistake, IMO. > J> would have made a massive impact for this reason, in the same way 2005 isn't *that* recent - there's been enough time that VS Test would > J> that IE made such a huge impact - if you've already *got* a unit test > J> framework available and integrated, wouldn't that become your default > J> choice? > > It would, but situation a little bit different, we are all using nunit, and > VS test were introduced recently have gained a lot of traction by now, I'm sure. As it is, far fewer people are using VS Test than would otherwise be, and I bet MS hasn't gained a single dollar. > >> The one exeption is the TeamFoundation, where VS test is integrated The only users of VS Test are users of Team System, so it can't > >> very well > J> At which point, having large numbers of VS Test users would help > J> sales of Team Foundation... > > IMO it is so. possibly drive further sales of Team System. It might drive extra sales of TFS *on top* of Team Systen, but I reckon it would do so a lot better if it had a more significant mindshare. -- Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet If replying to the group, please do not mail me too Michael Nemtsev <nemt***@msn.com> wrote:
> Probably not. Why?! They should have provided them *at least* in VS 2005 Standard editions > There should be the sound reason for this. from the start. They could have "owned" the unit testing mindshare in ..NET. Instead, NUnit will almost certainly dominate as many organisations don't need anything beyond what VS Professional provides. It would also have given the impression that they believe unit testing is a good thing for all developers, not just those in large teams. -- Jon Skeet - <sk***@pobox.com> http://www.pobox.com/~skeet Blog: http://www.msmvps.com/jon.skeet If replying to the group, please do not mail me too VSTS Dev addition has test. Hands down worth the money (especially if using
VSTS server, but not required). The test and code coverage is very well integrated. High marks here. I have used other products in past (nunit, csunit, etc). Those work fine, but vsts dev is the nuts. -- Show quoteWilliam Stacey [C# MVP] PCR concurrency library: www.codeplex.com/pcr PSH Scripts Project www.codeplex.com/psobject "Brian McCullough" <nospammingme@test.com> wrote in message http://spaces.live.com/laflournews:eiGoa$3VHHA.1120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... | Does anyone know if Microsoft is planning to offer this unit testing | framework as a separate SDK at any point??? | | | | "Michael Nemtsev" <nemt***@msn.com> wrote in message | news:a279a63a3e198f8c92591ef5d6a28@msnews.microsoft.com... | > Hello Brian, | > | > VS test framework cant be used outside the team suite edition. | > USe NUnit for this | > | > | > --- | > WBR, Michael Nemtsev [C# MVP]. My blog: Show quote | > Team blog: http://devkids.blogspot.com/ | > | > "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we | > miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it" (c) Michelangelo | > | > BM> Hello, | > BM> BM> I posted a similar question to the less active MSBuild community | > BM> group, so I apologize in advance for double posting, but I think it | > BM> is applicable to this group as well... | > BM> BM> If I am using the Standard or Professional editions of Visual | > Studio | > BM> 2005, can I make use of the unit testing framework provided by the | > BM> Team Suite? For example, is this Microsoft unit testing framework | > BM> available (and legal) to use outside of the Team Suite (i.e. Team | > BM> Edition for Software Developers or Team Edition for Software | > BM> Testers)? | > BM> BM> If so, where can I obtain a copy (or SDK) that can be downloaded | > and | > BM> used with my Visual Studio 2005 Professional installation? | > BM> BM> I am not looking to get all of the features out the Team Suite | > into | > BM> my Professional installation, just the ability to write some unit | > BM> test classes and have them run in my build script. Would like to | > BM> continue to use Microsoft tools, but I guess an alternative would be | > BM> to use NUnit. | > BM> BM> TIA | > BM> | > | |  |
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