|
dev
newsgroups
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Modeling tool to use with VS.NET 2005?I'm starting a new project in VS.NET 2005 and I've found that Rational XDE is not working with VS.NET 2005. I think XDE is a very good UML desing tool, but I think IBM is droping it's VS.NET 2005. So, my question is, what Modeling tool are you using with VS.NET 2005? Here are some things I've tried. · Rational XDE: The best in VS.NET 2003. Doesn't work in 2005. · Visio: Good to start a high level UML modeling, but useless once the development team starts to code because of the no-integration with the IDE. · Visual-Paradigm SDE: I've not been able to make it run properly with VS.NET 2005. It works well with VS.NET 2003. Not as good as Rational XDE, but good enought. · MDG - www.sparxsystems.com/vsip/: It hasn't a good IDE integration. .... Here is what I think is essential in a modeling tool: · Support for the basic diagrams: Class diagrams, Secuence Diagrams, Use Case Diagrams · On-demand Code synchronization: Without it any desing, no matters what good it is, will be useless once the development starts. VS.NET has a no-so-bad class designer, but it works real-time only, so the architect can not design anything while a developer is working (check-out) with the implied classes. What are you using? Could someone point me to a decent Modeling tool? Thanks in advance. How about Microsoft Visio?
-- HTH, Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP Professional Numbskull This is, by definition, not that. <la.rodriguezcas***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1148557558.186936.60050@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... I'm starting a new project in VS.NET 2005 and I've found that RationalHi, XDE is not working with VS.NET 2005. I think XDE is a very good UML desing tool, but I think IBM is droping it's VS.NET 2005. So, my question is, what Modeling tool are you using with VS.NET 2005? Here are some things I've tried. · Rational XDE: The best in VS.NET 2003. Doesn't work in 2005. · Visio: Good to start a high level UML modeling, but useless once the development team starts to code because of the no-integration with the IDE. · Visual-Paradigm SDE: I've not been able to make it run properly with VS.NET 2005. It works well with VS.NET 2003. Not as good as Rational XDE, but good enought. · MDG - www.sparxsystems.com/vsip/: It hasn't a good IDE integration. .... Here is what I think is essential in a modeling tool: · Support for the basic diagrams: Class diagrams, Secuence Diagrams, Use Case Diagrams · On-demand Code synchronization: Without it any desing, no matters what good it is, will be useless once the development starts. VS.NET has a no-so-bad class designer, but it works real-time only, so the architect can not design anything while a developer is working (check-out) with the implied classes. What are you using? Could someone point me to a decent Modeling tool? Thanks in advance. Kevin Spencer ha escrito:
Hi Kevin, Thank you for your response. The problem with Visio is that it does not (or I have been unable to find the way to...) synchronize model with code and viceversa. So you can make a very good design that is completly useless once the development process begins. With a tool like Rational XDE you could make a "evolutive" design, so you can design a sub-system of your entire application, let the developers start to code and continue with your design. And, in any moment synchronize with the updated code, update the model with new functionality... and so on. So, it's a mode "dynamic" design aproach than the conventional (and not very real-life) first-design and later-develop. Show quote > How about Microsoft Visio? > > -- > HTH, > > Kevin Spencer > Microsoft MVP > Professional Numbskull > > This is, by definition, not that. > > <la.rodriguezcas***@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1148557558.186936.60050@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > Hi, > > I'm starting a new project in VS.NET 2005 and I've found that Rational > XDE is not working with VS.NET 2005. I think XDE is a very good UML > desing tool, but I think IBM is droping it's VS.NET 2005. > > So, my question is, what Modeling tool are you using with VS.NET 2005? > Here are some things I've tried. > · Rational XDE: The best in VS.NET 2003. Doesn't work in 2005. > · Visio: Good to start a high level UML modeling, but useless once the > development team starts to code because of the no-integration with the > IDE. > · Visual-Paradigm SDE: I've not been able to make it run properly with > VS.NET 2005. It works well with VS.NET 2003. Not as good as Rational > XDE, but good enought. > · MDG - www.sparxsystems.com/vsip/: It hasn't a good IDE integration. > ... > > Here is what I think is essential in a modeling tool: > · Support for the basic diagrams: Class diagrams, Secuence Diagrams, > Use Case Diagrams > · On-demand Code synchronization: Without it any desing, no matters > what good it is, will be useless once the development starts. VS.NET > has a no-so-bad class designer, but it works real-time only, so the > architect can not design anything while a developer is working > (check-out) with the implied classes. > > What are you using? Could someone point me to a decent Modeling tool? > > Thanks in advance. I think you're right. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see that happening
in the next version. They have been moving closer to that goal, but how close is definitely an unknown. -- HTH, Kevin Spencer Microsoft MVP Professional Numbskull This is, by definition, not that. <la.rodriguezcas***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1148568868.595508.136610@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com... Kevin Spencer ha escrito:Hi Kevin, Thank you for your response. The problem with Visio is that it does not (or I have been unable to find the way to...) synchronize model with code and viceversa. So you can make a very good design that is completly useless once the development process begins. With a tool like Rational XDE you could make a "evolutive" design, so you can design a sub-system of your entire application, let the developers start to code and continue with your design. And, in any moment synchronize with the updated code, update the model with new functionality... and so on. So, it's a mode "dynamic" design aproach than the conventional (and not very real-life) first-design and later-develop. Show quote > How about Microsoft Visio? > > -- > HTH, > > Kevin Spencer > Microsoft MVP > Professional Numbskull > > This is, by definition, not that. > > <la.rodriguezcas***@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1148557558.186936.60050@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > Hi, > > I'm starting a new project in VS.NET 2005 and I've found that Rational > XDE is not working with VS.NET 2005. I think XDE is a very good UML > desing tool, but I think IBM is droping it's VS.NET 2005. > > So, my question is, what Modeling tool are you using with VS.NET 2005? > Here are some things I've tried. > · Rational XDE: The best in VS.NET 2003. Doesn't work in 2005. > · Visio: Good to start a high level UML modeling, but useless once the > development team starts to code because of the no-integration with the > IDE. > · Visual-Paradigm SDE: I've not been able to make it run properly with > VS.NET 2005. It works well with VS.NET 2003. Not as good as Rational > XDE, but good enought. > · MDG - www.sparxsystems.com/vsip/: It hasn't a good IDE integration. > ... > > Here is what I think is essential in a modeling tool: > · Support for the basic diagrams: Class diagrams, Secuence Diagrams, > Use Case Diagrams > · On-demand Code synchronization: Without it any desing, no matters > what good it is, will be useless once the development starts. VS.NET > has a no-so-bad class designer, but it works real-time only, so the > architect can not design anything while a developer is working > (check-out) with the implied classes. > > What are you using? Could someone point me to a decent Modeling tool? > > Thanks in advance. One of the three parts of VS 2005 Team System is the Team System for
Architects. I have not yet worked with it, but as I understand it is supposed to do what you are looking for. Jav Show quote "la.rodriguezcas***@gmail.com" wrote: > Hi, > > I'm starting a new project in VS.NET 2005 and I've found that Rational > XDE is not working with VS.NET 2005. I think XDE is a very good UML > desing tool, but I think IBM is droping it's VS.NET 2005. > > So, my question is, what Modeling tool are you using with VS.NET 2005? > Here are some things I've tried. > · Rational XDE: The best in VS.NET 2003. Doesn't work in 2005. > · Visio: Good to start a high level UML modeling, but useless once the > development team starts to code because of the no-integration with the > IDE. > · Visual-Paradigm SDE: I've not been able to make it run properly with > VS.NET 2005. It works well with VS.NET 2003. Not as good as Rational > XDE, but good enought. > · MDG - www.sparxsystems.com/vsip/: It hasn't a good IDE integration. > .... > > Here is what I think is essential in a modeling tool: > · Support for the basic diagrams: Class diagrams, Secuence Diagrams, > Use Case Diagrams > · On-demand Code synchronization: Without it any desing, no matters > what good it is, will be useless once the development starts. VS.NET > has a no-so-bad class designer, but it works real-time only, so the > architect can not design anything while a developer is working > (check-out) with the implied classes. > > What are you using? Could someone point me to a decent Modeling tool? > > Thanks in advance. > > Hi Jav,
Thanks for your response. Not exactly. With Team System you have a class designer. But it has some problems: · It's real-time designer. So if you want to add a new method to a class you must have it check-out from the source-code control, so the developers can't work with this file... or you trust "very" much the combine funcionality of team foundation server, and I don't 8·) · This is not a "true" designer (no matters UML or DSL), so you can't design estereotipe-relations (uses, ...), "link" other module classes, and you don't have Secuence Diagrams. So it's not very usefull. Jav ha escrito: Show quote > One of the three parts of VS 2005 Team System is the Team System for > Architects. I have not yet worked with it, but as I understand it is > supposed to do what you are looking for. > > Jav > > "la.rodriguezcas***@gmail.com" wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I'm starting a new project in VS.NET 2005 and I've found that Rational > > XDE is not working with VS.NET 2005. I think XDE is a very good UML > > desing tool, but I think IBM is droping it's VS.NET 2005. > > > > So, my question is, what Modeling tool are you using with VS.NET 2005? > > Here are some things I've tried. > > · Rational XDE: The best in VS.NET 2003. Doesn't work in 2005. > > · Visio: Good to start a high level UML modeling, but useless once the > > development team starts to code because of the no-integration with the > > IDE. > > · Visual-Paradigm SDE: I've not been able to make it run properly with > > VS.NET 2005. It works well with VS.NET 2003. Not as good as Rational > > XDE, but good enought. > > · MDG - www.sparxsystems.com/vsip/: It hasn't a good IDE integration. > > .... > > > > Here is what I think is essential in a modeling tool: > > · Support for the basic diagrams: Class diagrams, Secuence Diagrams, > > Use Case Diagrams > > · On-demand Code synchronization: Without it any desing, no matters > > what good it is, will be useless once the development starts. VS.NET > > has a no-so-bad class designer, but it works real-time only, so the > > architect can not design anything while a developer is working > > (check-out) with the implied classes. > > > > What are you using? Could someone point me to a decent Modeling tool? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > la.rodriguezcas***@gmail.com wrote:
What do you mean with this, what is important for you here? I am in exactly the same situation as you, looking for a decent tool. I have used Enterprise Architect (Sparx) for several years (Delphi), but have not tested the newest version, and not tested MDG. What is important for me is being able to both forward engineer and reverse engineer code <--> design. And equal important - a snappy and fast UML designer. Enterprise Architect does not satisfy the last part as much as I want, but it is very reasonable, allows plug-ins and so on, so all in all I have been satisfied with it. Hi Ingvar,
I've tested EA too, but I've not been able to make it work correctly. I've heard a lot about it, so I think I'll give it a new oportunity. These are the key functionalities that I'm looking for: · Integrated with the IDE: So it can handle Check-outs, it's under source control, and it's easier to use. · Full synchronization: So you can go model->code, code->model and code<->model (mix changes in model and code). Rational XDE did it very well. · Decent Use Case and Secuence Diagram implementation. I don't need Secuence Diagram Synchronization. · Decent cross-project and Framework support, so you can add "linked" classes in any project diagram. Have you tested some other software? la.rodriguezcas***@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Rodriguez! > I've tested EA too, but I've not been able to make it work correctly. I am not sure what you mean here. For me, it works pretty well, bothwith Delphi code (Delphi Pascal) and with C#. > I've heard a lot about it, so I think I'll give it a new oportunity. What I really like about it is that it can be configured in almost anyway, almost any option or feature is configurable. > These are the key functionalities that I'm looking for: To me, this is not interesting at this stage (maybe later)> · Integrated with the IDE: So it can handle Check-outs, it's under > source control, and it's easier to use. > · Full synchronization: So you can go model->code, code->model and Agreed, this is crucial.> code<->model (mix changes in model and code). Rational XDE did it very > well. > · Decent Use Case and Secuence Diagram implementation. Agreed> I don't need Secuence Diagram Synchronization. This depends on what you mean. To me, sequence diagrams are the mostimportant diagrams when I start coding, and even more important when I come back to my project later and have forgotten how it works. However, real synchronisation is difficult / impossible to achieve. For me, it is enough when method and parameter names are updated correctly. > · Decent cross-project and Framework support, so you can add "linked" Uh oh, this is rather advanced :-)> classes in any project diagram. But thinking of it, I understand your need, and I really would like this myself. I do not know to what extent EA has this in the latest version. > Have you tested some other software? Yes, I ran a test on several 12 months ago, but actually ended up withEnterprise Architect! My main complaint regarding the other software was that it was bloated (slooow) and overloaded with stuff I did not need. What I want (and that EA does not really satisfy) is a UML drawing tool I can use from day 1, just as a simple point and click tool, to make sketches. First later I need the code integration and so. I have tested Visio, it is really snappy for the first part, but then it does not support Delphi and so on - so back to EA again. I really need to give the latest version of EA a test run. Rodriguez, there is a tool called Together, I believe Borland owns this
now. This is used in Delphi, and I believe it is available for Visual Studio too. This may be a very good tool, I believe so, I assume however that the price is way higher than for Enterprise Architect. I have used this a little in Delphi, just testing. And it looked very good. But never tested it in Visual Studio. Thank you very much.
Yes, I was thinking in Together too. I've let it appart some months ago because it's code synchronization is real-time (so you need to check out any class you're goint to modify), but the rest of its functionlity was good. I think I'll give it another try 8·) Thank you Ingvar Nilsen ha escrito: Show quote > Rodriguez, there is a tool called Together, I believe Borland owns this > now. This is used in Delphi, and I believe it is available for Visual > Studio too. > > This may be a very good tool, I believe so, I assume however that the > price is way higher than for Enterprise Architect. > > I have used this a little in Delphi, just testing. And it looked very > good. But never tested it in Visual Studio. > > -- > Ingvar Nilsen > http://www.ingvarius.com  |
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Other interesting topics