Home All Groups Group Topic Archive Search About

.NET Framework

microsoft.public.dotnet.framework
Score asp.net newbie
godfader - 27 Nov 2004 11:14 PM - 4 messages
I've instaled framework 1.1. When i try to build asp.net web aplication and do the setup in IIS virtual dir i get message : you are not running specific asp.net version 1.1 what do i need to download? ...
Score XML editor component
Anders K. Jacobsen [DK] - 27 Nov 2004 7:46 PM - 3 messages
Hi Im planning to develope a open source editor for editing some special xml files. I guess its quite a task (read time-consuming) to develope my own xml editor from scratch. I need tag highligtning, endtag autocomplete and just ...
Score garbage collection problem in large linked list
Mr. Mountain - 27 Nov 2004 5:23 PM - 7 messages
I have a need to implement a linked list that will hold a large number of items. I have done a little performance testing to compare the linked list against the framework's standard hashtable. So far the linked list meets my objectives in all ways  -- except for one ...
Score Assemblies Working Set
Nando - 27 Nov 2004 4:29 PM - 3 messages
Hi I developed a layered desktop application.  Data, business, and presentation layers, all of them built a single assembly (the main .EXE), with a working set of about 4.5MB.  Then I was needed that the reports of the application ...
Score .Net Framework in Windows 2003
Don - 27 Nov 2004 4:49 AM - 3 messages
Dear All, I would like to know is there any methods to re-install .Net Framework v1.1 in Windows 2003 Web Edition? Since, recently, my Windows 2003 Web Server got mad on loading .Net written program, and I had tried different methods on solving the problem, however, ...
Score Is there anyway to treat ViewState the same as SessionState?
mterzich - 26 Nov 2004 11:49 PM - 8 messages
I developed a web application that doesn't allow the Back Arrow on the browser to work (disabled cacheing, always call myself on any event, and code in Load_Page that will redirect to the active page). Under this case I will ...
Score How Programly create assemblyes native image
Irakli Lomidze - 26 Nov 2004 10:57 PM - 2 messages
Dear Sirs. ..net framework has a grate utilite ngen.exe is it posible use it programly from my code. (of course i do not meen run exe file (ngen.exe) from a program)  :) Thank you in advance. Irakli Lomidze. ...
Score Copy protection for a .NET application
Massimo - 26 Nov 2004 7:43 PM - 76 messages
I'm planning to develop a .NET application using C#, in order to sell it as a shareware and/or as a full package, so I'll need a good way to protect it against piracy. I know some ways to protect it (activation, serial keys, ...
Score How to view an icon on the taskmanager for a Windows Service
Juan Manuel Alegría B. - 26 Nov 2004 4:08 PM - 2 messages
Hi group!! I have a question..  I made a Windows Service Application an it is running perfectly but Can I see it in the task manager as an icon?   Can I do this? Thanks so much.. Guadalajara, México. ...
Score Article : Soapsuds.exe (.Net Framework tools series)
Namratha Shah (Nasha) - 26 Nov 2004 3:59 PM - 2 messages
Hey Group, Today we gonna discuss Soapsuds tool. Soapsuds is shipped with .Net FrameWork and is used by .Net remoting Client Applications to generate xml schema,proxy class  or assembly for their HTTP Remoting Server. Client App can use this proxy class or the assembly as a ...
Score can't run process
georg andersson - 26 Nov 2004 1:33 PM - 4 messages
hi i like to start the the following commandline using processstartinfo.arguments and process.start. well, nothing happens. entering this line directly inside a command-shell works fine. so, what am i doing wrong? best regards georg command: "C:\Temp\lmutil.exe lmstat -a -c A.lic > C:\Temp\A.txt" ...
Score why GetHostByAddress gives me only computer name not actuall web hostname
Rushikesh Joshi - 26 Nov 2004 10:32 AM - 2 messages
Hi Friends I am having some query. On a server two site hosted     1) magnamags.com     2) stardustindia.com Now when I am resolving the IP address for this both sites. I am getting 202.71.136.211 (using GetHostByName). ...
Score performing scheduled tasks in .net
Andy Fish - 26 Nov 2004 8:35 AM - 2 messages
Hi, I need to implement some kind of scheduler in my .net windows service that can run tasks on a specified schedule. It needs to be more sophisticated than just "every N seconds". Ideally it should support cron-style specification of date/time intervals or something similar. ...
Score getting filename of OpenFileDialog
georg andersson - 26 Nov 2004 7:47 AM - 2 messages
hi the property OpenFileDialog.FileName returns the path and the filename of the selected file. how do i get only the filename (without the path in front)? best regards georg ...
Score how to allow only one instance of an application?
assaf - 26 Nov 2004 12:23 AM - 3 messages
hi all i want to block my users from running more then one instance of my app on their machine. how can i block my users from running more then one instance of my app on their machines? assaf ...
Score How to FTP via VPN to sites on different IP's ?
Jason Robertson - 25 Nov 2004 9:12 PM - 3 messages
Hi, The VPN works fine, but I want to FTP through the VPN so the connection is encrypted.  The problem is each of my IIS sites has a real Internet address specified, w.x.y.z.  So when the VPN comes up using a private IP, I can't ...
Score IP-adress of connecting peer when using remoting over HTTP in IIS
artmanaged33 - 25 Nov 2004 7:21 PM - 4 messages
Hi! I'm writing a remoting application that is hosted in IIS6 and uses the binary formatter with HTTP. Because this application will place database-locks I'd like to know who the other side is who makes a connection. ...
Score Automatic failover for two .NET remoting servers
artmanaged33 - 25 Nov 2004 7:20 PM - 4 messages
Hi! I have an application written with Windows Forms. in C# that uses remoting (http-channel, binary formatter) to talk to the middle tier on a IIS6. I now want to make the server more available by having two servers which both have the remoting-server deployed. I don't ...
Score xmlnode.writeto > memorystream gets truncated
Kristofer Andersson - 25 Nov 2004 4:19 PM - 3 messages
I have a weird problem. I write a XmlNode to a MemoryStream and the data gets truncated at exactly 12k. The XmlNode and its children are much larger than that but it always get cut at 12k. Sample code: Dim stream As New System.IO.MemoryStream ...
Score Now() Fucntion and CurrentCulture
ra294 - 25 Nov 2004 12:10 PM - 6 messages
When I use the Now() Fucntion i my ASP.net application I get a date format of mm/dd/yy. I want it to be dd/mm/yy. I set in the web config "culture="en-GB" uiCulture="en" and also set the regional setting of the computer. ...
Score Speeding up the .Net program (was Can I Speed Up the DotNet application...)
Zardoz - 25 Nov 2004 8:43 AM - 3 messages
The problem is - and I think the last poster got the wrong end of the stick - that development time using the new IDE is very much increased. If I navigate between source files and lines it can take ages to rediscover what context I'm in - I'm always waiting for it. ...
Score detect shutdown of other application
georg andersson - 25 Nov 2004 6:49 AM - 2 messages
hi i have a little application that is used to start a specific application (for example Word). my application is now supposed to run all the time the other application is running. as soon as the other application is closed by ...
Score EventLog.WriteEntry
Bernard - 25 Nov 2004 6:06 AM - 2 messages
I created a custom event log and using the WriteEntry method created an entry <code> EventLog.WriteEntry("SPR BackOffice","Some message" logged on", EventLogEntryType.Information, 1001); </code> This all worked very well - however the User field in my ...
Score reusing TcpClient object
Junaid - 25 Nov 2004 5:36 AM - 2 messages
I've got a situation where I need to send small strings across the network to a listening application. Events are fired randomly on the client and I need to send one message per event. I've got a separate ...
Score Stream.Write / Encoding problem
Ireney Berezniak - 25 Nov 2004 1:57 AM - 2 messages
Hi, I am trying to send an UTF-8 XML string to remote resource via HttpWebRequest using POST method, which means that I need to get the request stream and write my XML string to it.  No problems here. ...
Score Image
Sylvain Barde - 24 Nov 2004 11:16 PM - 2 messages
How can I change the image in picturebos for the same but in Black and white ? ...
Score WebRequest Header Question - what are the "---------------: ----- -------" in the header?
Jon - 24 Nov 2004 10:50 PM - 3 messages
Hi there! I'm trying to duplicate browser functionality in a .net application. I'm setting the http header attributes (Accept etc) directly to simulate IE and firefox behavior. Everything is looking good, but when I sniff IE and firefox ...
Score System.Data.SqlServerCE
David H - 24 Nov 2004 10:27 PM - 4 messages
I am attempting to use SqlServerCE but I get a compile error stating the namespace does not exist. I have inslalled SQLServer 2000 and SqlServer CE.  I searched my hard drive and found the System.Data.SqlServerCE.dll Is there an installaion process I am missing? ...
Score Self installing services
Burga - 24 Nov 2004 10:13 PM - 4 messages
I have a simple service written in VB.net that can be installed and removed successfully using srvinst. I'd like to make this file self installing though (for example, run from the command line with an argument to get it ...
Score Listing folders on remote computer using wmi
Bruce Parker - 24 Nov 2004 7:45 PM - 4 messages
I am trying to list the sub folders in a folder on a remote computer.  I have found some samples in C# but cannot get it to work in VB.NET.  I get a "specified cast is not valid exception". ...
Score framework sometimes doesn't work
Alejandra Parra - 24 Nov 2004 7:23 PM - 2 messages
I have an application and it works fine, but, sometimes, a system error appears indicating an error on the .net framework, why is it? Alejandra Mexico ...
Score Update Method Not Updating Database
Kenny Nemchak - 24 Nov 2004 6:32 PM - 3 messages
I'm new to ASP.NET so I'm probably just missing a simple statement. The code runs fine with no errors, but the update method does not update the SQL database. I open the database, fill the dataset, find a row, delete the row and ...
Score Stopping a threaded .Net service
Jim Adams - 24 Nov 2004 5:49 PM - 3 messages
When a VB.Net windows service receives a Stop request, when does it actually end?  For example, when a service app spawns worker threads that run for a period ranging from a few seconds to a few minutes, how ...
Score Office 2003 PIAs
zfeld - 24 Nov 2004 4:08 PM - 2 messages
1. Where do I get the Office 2003 PIAs? On the MSDN download site there are only downloads for XP office PIAs. Do they automatically get installed to the GAC with the installation of office 2003? 2. My problem is that I am developing an application in C# that does office ...
Score How to determine whether the local machine is a domain contoller?
Gniluy - 24 Nov 2004 3:53 PM - 3 messages
I'm writing a program which needs to determine whether the local machine is a domain contoller or not. The steps I plan to do is: 1. Find out the local machine's name and domain name it belongs to. ...
Score Can I speed up the DotNet application at all?
Zardoz - 24 Nov 2004 3:11 PM - 4 messages
Hi, I'm migrating a project from VC6 to VC7 and I'm astonounded at how slowly everything happens. Intellisense takes a while, the context help does its stuff eventually. I've got a 2.8 Ghz machine with loads ...
Score middle tier recommendations
Param R. - 24 Nov 2004 2:44 PM - 15 messages
Hi all, we are in the process of architecting a new application that will have an asp.net front end & sql back end. In the past we have used webservices as a middle tier solution but in terms of performance it has not ...
Score Bluetooth comms using virtual com port
Steve Spencer - 24 Nov 2004 2:27 PM - 2 messages
Hello, I am using a Dell Axim to communicate with a Bluetooth device that simulates an RS232 port. My code opens a virtual comport on the PDA. My code follows the example in [link] ...
Score How to speed-up winform for the first time launch
Atul - 24 Nov 2004 2:07 PM - 2 messages
Hi, In my winform application, when I try to launch any form first time, it takes long time, but for the next time it gets launched in a very less time. One reason I know is MSIl is converted into m/c code(JIT compilation). ...
Score creating new folder
Brian - 24 Nov 2004 1:13 PM - 3 messages
How can I force a new folder to not inherit the security preferences from its parent? ...
Score Parse date with format yyyyMMdd
René Titulaer - 24 Nov 2004 12:39 PM - 8 messages
Dear all, i have a date in the format yyyyMMdd. When I try to parse this I get the following error: string was not recognized as a valid datetime. I use the following code: CultureInfo culture = new CultureInfo("en-US"); ...
Score Installing VIsual Studio 2002 and Visual Studio 2003 on the same PC
Paul - 24 Nov 2004 9:27 AM - 3 messages
Hi, I have Visual Studio.Net 2002 and the .Net Framework 1.0 on my PC. I am considering moving to Visual Studio 2003 and .Net Framework 1.1 for any new projects. Before I begin just wondering if its okay to install ...
Score FastGetExistingType() method question?
jiangyh - 24 Nov 2004 8:52 AM - 4 messages
hi there:   I found FastGetExistingType() method in Object class.I want to look it's source.how to resolve this. thanks a lot. ...
Score Entering a timespan value of 24:00 in property pane
Jos - 24 Nov 2004 8:09 AM - 2 messages
I have a custom control with a property of type TimeSpan. When I enter a value of 24:00:00 in the property pane I get an "Improper property value" error. How do I enter this value? And how do I enter a value greater than 24 hours? ...
Score SQLdebugger user account
maxzsim - 24 Nov 2004 2:29 AM - 2 messages
Hi ,    I have this SQLDebugger user account and is it created because i have installed Microsoft.NET Framwork 1.1 .    I have also installed IIS and that will create IUSR_computername and the default ASPNET user account but does it create SQLDebugger ? ...
Score Date Time Picker
Charles A. Lackman - 24 Nov 2004 1:32 AM - 5 messages
Hello, I have a DateTimePicker on my form and I need to make every Even week Red and every Odd week Yellow. Any Suggestions will be greatly appreciated (Detailed help is even more appreciated). Thanks, Chuck ...
Score confusing remark in MSDN Control.BeginInvoke() doc
Joe Doyle - 24 Nov 2004 1:09 AM - 2 messages
I've read a bit about the differences between delegate's BeginInvoke and Control.BeginInvoke, and it sounds like Control's BeginInvoke() ensures that the delegate is invoked in the thread that created the Control's context. This implies no thread pool threads are involved. A test app bore this out. ...
Score serializing a ParamArray???
Will - 23 Nov 2004 11:19 PM - 2 messages
can anyone tell me if ParamArray's are serializable, and if not what do I need to do to serialize it? _Will ...
Score storing the username and password information
MVB - 23 Nov 2004 11:11 PM - 4 messages
I am developing a backup application. I have a provision where users from different domain can login and then do backups. My question is ,once they login I need to store the info,i.e their username and password should be stored securely somewhere,so that whenever next time ...
Score .net framework 1.1 installation on Windows NT 4 with SBS
Zack - 23 Nov 2004 10:13 PM - 2 messages
Hi,    In reading KB815176 it says that you can install .net framework on systems including NT 4.0, but it says that you need to have IIS 5 installed.  However IIS 5 to my knowledge (and reading posts) can't be installed on NT ...
Score RE: is there an instruction in VB.NET
Paul Shaddick - 23 Nov 2004 9:45 PM - 2 messages
Ken You did say you were looking for a VB solution. A quick one liner like this will do it. Probably not as efficient as many other ways but quick n' easy:- len("aRbRcR") - len(replace("aRbRcx","R","")) This single line returns 2! i.e. the R's in the string are replaced by null ...
Score Re-flunk-tion!
William Sullivan - 23 Nov 2004 9:41 PM - 7 messages
I'm wondering why reflection fails in this instance...  I'm trying to do drag and drop using ListViewItem objects.  When I check the DragEventArgs to see if it has my ListViewItem, I have to use GetDataPresent to test if it's the ...
Score Monitor (lock)
Andrew - 23 Nov 2004 9:33 PM - 4 messages
I'm having a tough time understanding the concept of locking "on an object". If a monitor is used to protect a critial section, then what does any object reference have to do with it?  Does this allow different instances of the ...
Score ASP.NET 2.0 Maintain Scroll Position on PostBack with Mozilla FIREFOX in the works?
ed - 23 Nov 2004 6:11 PM - 9 messages
Does anyone know if ASP.NET 2.0 is going to incorporate "maintain scroll position on postback" in non-IE browsers like Firefox? This seems like an often requested feature on these newsgroups since the beta version of .NET. Microsoft heavily advertises it's .NET browser detection advantages, why not ...
Score Version of .Net....
Gill - 23 Nov 2004 5:51 PM - 3 messages
How to identify which version of .Net is installed ? Thanks, Gill ...
Score Application Error
Heath - 23 Nov 2004 5:09 PM - 3 messages
I have a very simpel application that fills a datagrid with data from a SQL Server on a local network.  The problem is that on one PC the application loads fine, but on the other I get NullReferenceException in my FormLoad ...
Score ANN: Bob Powell's Beginners Guide to GDI+
Bob Powell [MVP] - 23 Nov 2004 3:51 PM - 9 messages
Many of you use the GDI+ FAQ or Windows Forms Tips and Tricks site every day. There are also hundreds of people who have mailed me asking for a totally basic beginners guide that assumes minimal knowledge of .NET to get ...
Score Starting up application from dll.
Sebastiaan Olijerhoek - 23 Nov 2004 2:18 PM - 6 messages
Excel can be started up throw automation like: Excel.Application myExcel = new Excel.Application() How can I create this functionality for my own application? Kind regards, Sebastiaan. ...
Score w3wp.exe locking DLL and PDB files.
z. f. - 23 Nov 2004 9:18 AM - 16 messages
Hi, i have an ASP.NET project that is using a (Class Library Project) VB.NET DLL. for some reason after running some pages on the web server, and trying to compile the Class Library DLL, it can't compile because the DLL is in use (and the PDB too), and the w3wp.exe process is the process locking the DLL (as viewed with Sysinternals - Process Explorer). ...
Score Multithreading and RollBacks
wdewebserver - 23 Nov 2004 6:34 AM - 5 messages
Hi I have a multi-threaded application that is of Parent-Child relation. For example App1 will run and on completion fire App1.1, App1.2 and App1.3 which can run in parallel. App2 depends on the successful completion of the last ...
Score How to read Outlook attachments in .NET ?
phodge - 23 Nov 2004 5:33 AM - 5 messages
I have tried Jet.OLEDB with OleDbDataAdapter(sqlText, connectionString), but this doesn't seem to let me identify or more importantly open attachments. ...
Score Reverse usage of public/private RSA encryption keys for licensing?
charismatic_evangelist - 23 Nov 2004 5:15 AM - 13 messages
The way that RSACryptoServiceProvider works is that we encrypt with a public key and decrypt with a private key.  This architecture works great for people sending messages to me.  However, I now have the opposite application: I want to put a license file on a destination computer and be sure ...
Score regex puzzle!
G. Stewart - 23 Nov 2004 4:44 AM - 10 messages
The objective is to extract the first n characters of text from an HTML block. I wish to preserve all HTML (links, formatting etc.), and at the same time, extend the size of the block to ensure that all closing tags are recovered. ...
Score Windows compound files
Steve - 23 Nov 2004 4:39 AM - 2 messages
Are windows compound files supported under .NET? Compound files are like a directory - there are several streams in a single file.  I have C++ code for some object classes that use compound files and am having difficulty getting it to compile under .NET because some standard ...
Score Anyone have info on the dreaded Q316146 bug? ... (i.e. There is no Original data to access)
malcolm - 23 Nov 2004 3:34 AM - 3 messages
I'm absolutely baffled why Microsoft has decided to give so little information about this issue. We here (as with many other's I'm sure) have wasted countless hours of time finding, researching and redesigning around this issue.  I wish someone would clarify ...
Score url parameter
zbcong - 23 Nov 2004 3:09 AM - 2 messages
hello how can i get the parameter "param" from the url http://localhost/myapp/webform1.aspx?param=p1 in the serverside c# code? thank you ...
Score xml posting
BK Kim - 23 Nov 2004 1:45 AM - 2 messages
I am developing two asp.net web projects. When the last page of the first project is done, it redirects to the first page of the second project. However, I need to transfer some data to the second project and I want to ...
Score Framework 1.1 Service Pack 1 Question
Angry Developer - 22 Nov 2004 9:08 PM - 2 messages
I am addressing this message to Microsoft directly. Recently this service pack was released, and it has fixed many issues. However, one glaring bug fix, for some reason or another, was left out of this service release.  The VersionNotFoundException which will ...
Score aspnet_wp.exe Problem
DotNet Guerrilla - 22 Nov 2004 9:03 PM - 9 messages
I have performance issues with aspnet_wp.exe.  Some time I got the following errors on the production server and hang-up the server until I killed the process. Please advice! aspnet_wp.exe  (PID: 3648) stopped unexpectedly. aspnet_wp.exe  (PID: 4136) was recycled because it was suspected to be in a ...
Score windows service interact with desktop
Misbah Arefin - 22 Nov 2004 5:21 PM - 5 messages
Hi, Im writing a widnows service and i want the service to interact with the desktop. However, I do not want to go to control panel->services->properties->logon and then selec the check box "Allow service to interact with desktop". How can i do this in code. I know this ...
Score Dispose Question
Scott Hembrough - 22 Nov 2004 5:12 PM - 2 messages
Just a quick question on implementing the Dispose pattern. The .NET Framework SDK documentation states that an ObjectDisposedException should be thrown from instance methods (other than Dispose) when resources for the object have already been disposed.  This would include any ...
Score Question with despair - will buy movie tickets for the first one who helps
Oliver - 22 Nov 2004 3:46 PM - 4 messages
Hi, I have spent my entire weekend trying to solve this, now I have to admit I need your help. Here is my code: Dim cred() As DataSourceCredentials Dim cc As New DataSourceCredentials cred(0) = cc cred(0).DataSourceName = "198.87.87.6" ...
Score WSE support in framework 2.0
Oldman - 22 Nov 2004 2:59 PM - 3 messages
Is there plans to have any of the WSE classes supported in version 2.0 of the ..NET framework? Thanks, Oldman ...
Score Operator Overloading -- Inherently Thread Safe?
Cole Shelton - 22 Nov 2004 1:07 PM - 3 messages
Hi all, If an overloaded operator method contains multiple lines of code does it need to be synchronized at the class level or is it inherently thread safe? TIA Cole ...
Score C++ and .NET compatability
Timothy V - 22 Nov 2004 10:24 AM - 3 messages
Hi, Is it possible for a non-.net C++ application to use a .NET DLL file? Thanks in advance, Tim. ...
Score "master" attribute not recognized
nidii - 22 Nov 2004 10:17 AM - 2 messages
Hello, I'm trying to define a default master page in web.config for my web application lihe this:     <appSettings/>     <system.web>         <!-- ...
Score Detect IE update version or service pack number
henry - 22 Nov 2004 9:32 AM - 5 messages
Hi all, I'm building a website which provides contents that only work for some browser types and versions. I know I can get most of the client browser information using HttpBrowserCapabilities class, but I can't find a way  to ...
Score regular expression for comma delimit
msnews.microsoft.com - 22 Nov 2004 8:53 AM - 9 messages
hi all, i'm trying to retrieve contents that are comma delimited like the following. aaa, bbb, ccc, ddd how would my regular expression match string look. also what if there are whitespaces (cr,lf,tab) how would like ignore them ? ...
Score Problem with asp-net apps
AVL - 22 Nov 2004 5:19 AM - 4 messages
Hi,     I'm new to .Net. I've installed visualstudio.net 2003. There were no problems in set up. But my asp.net web applications are not running properly. Sometimes, the Page_load event doesn't fire properly and sometimes the ...
Score framework 2 requirements
Dimitris Papadimitriou - 21 Nov 2004 8:03 PM - 2 messages
Hello! I'm building an application using VB 2005 Express. Will it run on Windows 98/Me systems? thx, Dimitris ...
Score changing permissions of a network share using .net
Thorsten Giesecke - 21 Nov 2004 3:21 PM - 2 messages
Hi@all, how can i change the permissions (ace, securitydescriptor, etc.) of a network share using .net (c#)? exists a .net api for this task? thanks a lot thorsten ...
Score copy reference to XmlDocument
z. f. - 21 Nov 2004 2:05 PM - 3 messages
Hi, i'm using VB.NET and creating an XMLDocument object inside a class. i want to copy the reference to the object to a local variable using xmlList = MyObj.XmlObj when xmlList is of type XmlDocument and MyObj.XmlObj also. ...
Score Mistake in MSDN
Vivek Thakur - 21 Nov 2004 12:39 PM - 5 messages
Hello, I think I have found a mistake in MSDN. I have visual Studio 2003 with MSDN. My problem is very simple: I have a webform with a HTML button control as: <INPUT id="Button1" type="button" value="Button" name="Button1" ...
Score project security issue
z. f. - 21 Nov 2004 9:56 AM - 6 messages
my development environment is windows 2003 server. when i open a project on the visual studio IDE that is located on another server i get the message " The project location is not fully trusted by the .NET runtime. This is usually because it is either a network share or mapped to a network share not on the local machine. If the output path is under the project location, your code will not execute as fully trusted and you may receive unexpected security exceptions. ...
Next » 2 3 4 5 6 7 8